Brian is a playful person: Innately and intentionally. Professionally, he’s a personal trainer, strength & conditioning coach, and mobility specialist. He loves games and sports of all kinds—he played many growing up and still plays Ultimate Frisbee competitively. He tries to bring a sense of joy, play, and wonder to everything he does.
He has a BS in Kinesiology from Penn State and has been working as a trainer/coach for 13 years. In that time, he’s come to understand that genuine, uninhibited self-expression is immensely powerful. He uses systems learned from Functional Anatomy Seminars (FRC, Kinstretch) and tries to blend scientifically sound principles with an empathetic, holistic approach to health and fitness.
Find out more about Brian’s work at smilestakeyoumiles.org. Check out his YouTube channel youtube.com/BrianNevison. And be sure to follow him on Instagram @b_nevison.
Finally, don’t miss Brian’s YouTube “Playtime” Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWDeaumTuS3GTjtylK6ALggwpayRwWvSh
What’s covered in this episode?
- How are consistency and routine important to my physical therapy treatment?
- Are there ways to overcome boredom in a rigid exercise routine?
- How to effectively alternate between discipline and play in my exercise regime?
- What is kinesiology?
- Why is empathy, compassion, and patience so important in treatment outcomes?
- Are you able to get a high level of care at a high volume clinic?
- How to combine mindfulness and bodywork?
- Is there a connection between mental health and physical therapy?
Episode Transcript
Caitlin: When I was growing up in Nebraska, my mom said that God talked to her through her car radio. My mom grew up in a big Irish Catholic family, but wasn’t religious at all through my formative years. She didn’t actually believe God was behind the sequencing of songs on the radio or the way the music always seemed to speak to current events and struggles in her life.
But there was some serendipitous truth to her observations. I get it. Both of my parents were radio DJs throughout my childhood. By the way, my exposure to music was eclectic and fabulous, and I’m super grateful today for the ways music has inspired and moved me. It has always been a huge part of my life and has had the power to shape my mood and my motivation.
So lately at the gym, I’ve been having fun allowing my big eclectic playlist to serve as my coach. My trainer talks to me through the radio, so to speak. Um, let me preface this all by saying that consistency and routine are important when working toward a particular goal. Gradual exposure to stimulus is crucial for mitigating injury.
Objectively measured parameters like repetitions, time intensity, rest intervals are important for tracking progress. Yes. Okay. And when one has developed the load tolerance necessary to improvise like a big enough reserve incapacity to play a little bit, a whole world of opportunity opens up. So now that I’ve been training personally in my practice, I’ve been training plyometrics and sprinting for about a year.
Just to use that as an example. I don’t always need to stick to a rigid protocol of time, bouts of effort with like precisely measured rest. I’ve been running on a self-powered treadmill. Uh, a curved treadmill since December. I love it. It’s my hamster wheel in awesome ways. Hamster wheel sounds terrible, but it’s actually like the best, best thing for me.
I absolutely love it. I started with intervals timed on my watch. It was useful in the beginning, right? It helped me assess my baseline and measure my improvements, but I get bored with a rigid routine pretty quickly. So sometimes when I’m on the treadmill now, I just groove to the music. I allow the intensity of the song, the timing of the big chorus kicking in to drive my level of effort.
It’s really a powerful mood boost for me. And being there with the music makes me feel like I’m all in, like I’m. Part of something bigger here and now, and it’s like sometimes more important to me on a mental or emotional level than checking a box on my training calendar. So yeah, my inner coach talks to me through my Spotify playlist.
There’s a reason I’m telling this story. I’m telling this story to introduce my interview with Brian Neon. I reached out to Brian because I’ve always admired the ways he so fluidly oscillates between discipline and play in his own physical endeavors, and I think it’s, it’s just really potent in the attitude that he brings to movement education.
And in coaching his clients. So we talked a little bit about the barriers for entry into a new exercise routine and how sometimes trying to get something perfect, especially if you’re trying to get everything, every aspect, perfect. It can quickly set folks up for failure. So finding joy in the effort is super important.
I think that’s important for consistency and for longevity, right? You’re not gonna do a thing that you don’t like doing, so we have to find ways to enjoy it and do the things, do more of the things that we enjoy. It’s really a beautiful thing, and it helps us build up our capacity to play. Fluidly and spontaneously.
So personally for me, this has a profound impact on my mood and my mental attitude day-to-day. Brian and I are both entrepreneurs and business owners, and both getting ready to open our new office spaces. So the timing of this interview was extra special. Before we jump into the interview, I wanted to take a moment to tell you about a new online class series I’m starting on February 19th.
It’s called Relearn How to Jump, an Introduction to Impact Loading. This is my first online class series since. August of 2022, I am ready to zoom with y’all again. Um, this is [00:05:00] also my first online series with my new business practice human. So, for jumping, we’re gonna start at the very, very, very beginning.
No, we won’t be jumping the whole time. We’ll be doing all kinds of other whole body conditioning to go along with it. It will challenge your strength. Your cardio, respiratory endurance, your balance and your coordination. So relearn how to jump is for you if you wanna introduce more energizing heart, pumping fast intervals into your home movement sessions or kinda in between lifts in your strength, strength workouts at the gym.
It’s also great if you just don’t know where to start or how to do any of those things safely. If you have a goal to begin running or if returning to running after some time off is kind of what you’re jiving on this spring, this series will help you mitigate the risk of overuse injury. It’ll also help you feel stronger and more efficient on your runs as you get back into it.
If your [00:06:00] intent on increasing and maintaining lean muscle mass. Bone density, soft tissue elasticity, all of those good things for your health and longevity. This course is for you. It’s also a great way to just challenge your body and your mind in fun new ways. So series is spread out over eight weeks of live classes.
There’s replays, of course, if you can’t attend live. Also, short homework videos to. Supplement your training in between our live classes together. As I said, our first live class is Sunday, February 19th. We get rolling at 9:30 AM Eastern time, and then our registration closes on February 22nd. So if you’re interested in learning more, head over to practice human.com/jump and you can read all about it.
Again, practice human.com/jump and I hope to see you there. All right, let’s get into my interview with Brian Neon.[00:07:00]
I’m really delighted to have Brian here. He is someone that I’ve followed on social media for probably a few years. And Brian, I just have to say that when you come into my social media feed, it is like a ray of sunshine bursting in and, um, so much fun and so much play. And I have, I have a great deal of respect for the amount of.
Discipline that you’ve put into your movement practice and your athletic endeavors that have led up to your ability to play in such a, a free and seemingly spontaneous way. But I know there is really a lot of work behind that. So that’s one of the things I wanted to talk to you about today. You are a very playful person.
You say innately and intentionally professionally. Brian is a personal trainer. Strength and conditioning coach and mobility specialist. He loves games and sports of all kinds. He played many growing up and still plays ultimate Frisbee competitively. He tries to bring a sense of joy, [00:08:00] play and wonder to everything he does.
Brian has a BS in kinesiology from Penn State and has been working as a trainer and coach for 13 years. He’s come to understand that genuine uninhibited self-expression is immensely powerful. And, uh, I couldn’t agree more. Uh, he uses systems that he is learned from Functional anatomy seminar seminars that’s frc or functional range conditioning and kin stretch, and tries to blend scientifically sound principles with empathetic, holistic approach to health and fitness.
Brian, thank you so much for being here to talk with me today.
Brian: Thank you so much for having me, Caitlin. I’m very excited. One of the things I love most is hearing what people feel when they come across me on Instagram or social media. Of course, I’m putting out things that I think can be helpful and also things that resonate with me.
So it is, it makes me so happy to hear that it’s, as you described it, like a ray of sunshine because [00:09:00] I want to be real about things. You know, not everything’s always, uh, amazing, but at the same time, we can find. Joy and, um, empowerment in all kinds of different ways, for sure.
Caitlin: Yes, yes. And I agree with you that, um, it’s, things aren’t always amazing, but, um, I think, I think you do present a really, uh, kind of realistic side to that as well, and so, so much useful.
Information that I think is, uh, the kind of useful information that’s very down to earth and user friendly, so folks at any level of experience can benefit and, uh, and really bolster their own sense of strength or empowerment. Uh, ability, ability to, to kind of go forth and do and, and take things on.
Um, it’s, it’s very empowering for sure. Yeah.
Brian: I’m so glad to hear that. It’s, it’s something that it, it took me some time to kind of figure out, but one of the things that I found worked well from the very beginning, regardless of [00:10:00] algorithms, et cetera, things that connected with people was the, the kind of genuine positivity.
And also just the self-expression like, Hey, here’s a video of me just doing stuff that I like to do. Mm-hmm. Um, and even if people didn’t feel the same way about what I was doing, that feeling resonates.
Caitlin: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, it’s pretty contagious. Let’s start just by going back a little bit to, um, things that have influenced your kind of, how, what brought you to, to the work that you do now as a coach, as a trainer, as an educator, just so our listeners can kind of get familiarized with, I guess, what shaped your.
Perspective or your point of view in the way that you coach? Tell us a little bit about what got you started on this path.
Brian: Yeah, so specifically in the, the kind of the health and fitness world, I, I’ve always been very physically inclined. I’ve loved playing all kinds of [00:11:00] stuff. Um, had a very vivid imagination, which allowed me to enjoy, even if I was playing by myself, you know, I could do it for hours and.
As I got through school, I found this thing called kinesiology, which was super cool. Um, this study of body movement and et cetera, and I started to realize that I could help people in really powerful ways. I dealt with a lot of injuries and pain from a pretty young age. And the conventional means that should have helped me did not, you know, going through the medical system and finding professionals who, you know, maybe it wasn’t as holistic in approach as it could have been, or I wasn’t educated, or I wasn’t receptive enough, whatever it was, I went through not really understanding how to take care of myself and I really wanted to help people.
Mm-hmm. So that’s kind of what led me down the path. But going back further, [00:12:00] the, the foundation of empathy and compassion and patience, that’s more important than anything else, I believe. And I got a lot of that, not because of me, but actually just because of the situation I was born into. I have a twin brother who, uh, has a developmental disability.
Um, his, his cognitive functioning is lower. And that contrast is very stark when you have a twin. So, you know, I was like a constant representation of what he couldn’t do. Cause I was very physically inclined. I was very curious. I was very active in my environment and he was not. And when I was young I didn’t totally understand it.
I would try to teach him math and spelling and it wasn’t catching on and he was different. Behaviorally, uh, the way he expressed himself, what he could understand, and I could see that people and society responded to him [00:13:00] differently. And initially I didn’t have a great way of kind of processing that and understanding it, but over time, I, I really believe it helped me to be more empathetic and wonder where people are coming from and think about, you know, Is there an opportunity for me to shift the proportion of like, kindness to frustration, which really applies to working with patients and clients.
Cause Yeah. You know, people will frustrate you or working anywhere and it’s like, can I come from a place of seeking to understand and kindness and patience rather than just defaulting to frustration? Hmm. Um, I, I think that really helped besides the fact that my dad is like, One of the most empathetic people I’ve ever met.
Uh, so some of it is, is a lot of luck. You know, I’ve, I’ve certainly consciously worked on the empathy and the kindness, but my environment growing up definitely shaped
Caitlin: that. [00:14:00] Wow. Yeah, and I can imagine that. Um, I think one of the super, super important skills as a teacher, as a coach is being able to work with all different types of learners and figure out ways to.
Fine tune or modify the way you’re presenting information for people based on the way that they learn. And it sounds like you’ve had a pretty good lesson in that too, as well with your work and growing up with your brother.
Brian: Yes. That, that’s helped so much. I remember early on when I started training, I.
I was like 22 or 23, and I’m training all these people who are in their fifties, sixties, seventies, in pain, uh, not happy with how they move, having not had great experiences with movement. And shortly, you know, it didn’t take that much time before I was able to kind of say, Hey, I know I can’t possibly understand what you’re going through, but I’m gonna try.
And I appreciate you communicating with me and you know, I have some experiences which are different, but [00:15:00] I do know what it’s like to be unable to go up the stairs comfortably and not be able to sleep because of pain. So I, I feel very fortunate that I was able to relate because so many young people when they start working professionally, do have trouble relating to people who are 20 or 30 years older and have very different life experiences.
Caitlin: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I think older folks or people who are transitioning into different ways that different types of fitness or types of exercise or just relationships with exercise shift over the lifespan. I think people. Look for different things at different times and, um, and I, I mean, what somebody’s looking for as an outlet for their fitness or mental health or what, whatever it is that’s bringing them to exercise in their twenties and thirties is very different than someone in there.
Sixties and seventies. I mean, the exercise itself might [00:16:00] look the same, but I think some of the purpose behind it, or the reasons for seeking it out and staying disciplined with it, um, can really shift as well. So maybe the motivating factors are different.
Brian: Absolutely. And that, and that plays into how you, you treat someone or train someone, you know, kind of finding what.
What their reasoning is, or if you can help them discover, uh, an incentive or motivating factor to, to keep them consistent enough and mm-hmm. And also give them a good experience because the reality is when it comes to movement and exercise, a very large percentage of people, uh, just having aversion to it.
Mm-hmm. Uh, and they’re just not used to, uh, being in an environment that challenges them physically, regularly. Right. And maybe it wasn’t normal for them.
Caitlin: Sure, sure. One of the things, Brian, that you mentioned when we were prepping for this interview is that much of your professionalism comes from some traumatic experience that you’ve had with a previous employer.
[00:17:00] And, um, I, if you’re okay to talk about that, I’m interested in hearing about that. Yeah. And I also know just from other, other colleagues of mine in the fitness and training and coaching worlds that they’re. Uh, and the PT outpatient clinic world for sure. There’s a lot of, um, burnout or feelings of like exploitation being taken advantage of, kind of for your, your time and your skills and very little pay.
And, um, uh, the, and this is really difficult, I think, for a lot of people to find the right fit for them professionally, um, to avoid things like burnout or feeling like they’re being exploited by their. Employer. So I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about that and kind of how that’s led you to the work that you do now, what your business setup looks like these days with your training.
Brian: Yeah, I’m, I’m happy to speak about that. That’s something when, when I started, uh, my last semester at Penn State, I started working for the, a small company. That did personal training at a very, very [00:18:00] high level. So it was like an eight week training program, unpaid, uh, just to begin working with clients. Hmm.
And we ended up having like 16 full-time trainers. I went through this training program, learned a lot, you know, a lot of it was review cause I had just come out of my, my degree in kinesiology. But a lot of it was about the art of training and communication. Mm-hmm. And the things that a lot of people at entry level don’t.
Don’t really get lots of quality control, which on one hand can be good, but it was also a lot of very rigid kind of thinking. And the positive again, is I, I started working with, I did maybe averaged 50 trading sessions a week between 30 and 60 minutes for like six and a half years. Yeah. Um, it’s heavy.
And, and on top of that had, yeah, I had all kinds of other responsibilities. I was basically doing, you know, two or three people’s jobs in addition to the [00:19:00] training. Mm-hmm. And the standards were so high, it was like, you know, we, we had to do all these different things to make sure we’re covering all our bases.
Uh, and I understand it, it’s, you know, you want to make sure that you are documenting everything, that if you’re sick, someone can come in and work with your client and they’ll know what to do and be prepared. So a lot of the measures made sense if you kind of are in it and you’re like, oh, this all makes sense, but put together with that volume, it was just, um, excessive.
And I was one of the few people who did. That volume of sessions for that long without quitting or burning out or dropping the quality of the sessions, so, right. Yeah. And, and I didn’t recognize early, cuz I was this young kid coming out. I wanted to do my best. I wasn’t making much compared to how much I was working, but based on my lifestyle, it was enough.
So yeah, that didn’t motivate me to find something [00:20:00] else. I thought, well, I’m okay and. The, my boss was, was manipulative. You know, he figured out what motivated me, which was just doing a good job and helping people. And that was like the jackpot. It’s like, oh, cool, I can just pull on those strings and this guy’s gonna do whatever I want.
So, you know, I was always under the impression I wasn’t doing enough. You know, my performance wasn’t good enough when the reality was, um, you know, that wasn’t the case. So I’m, I’m grateful for some of that because it, it taught me certain measures of professionalism and how to consistently show up for your clients despite being kind of burnt out.
Mm-hmm. It taught me a lot of habits to help me stay afloat even when I shouldn’t have been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but, but I didn’t realize until a friend of mine said, Hey, they, you know, This is abuse. They cannot do this. This is, this is not okay. And eventually I, I was able to break [00:21:00] out of that and trust that, you know, the skills I had and the success I had was because of me and not because of them, which is how they made me feel.
Right. So, yeah, it’s quite an experience.
Caitlin: Definitely. What is your business looking like now in terms of your, uh, I know you, you bring, uh, kinda a combination of I, I’m sure, different, uh, types of training. I, I think you do in-person and online, uh, classes. Mm-hmm. Do you, you teach online too?
Brian: I do. I do. Mm-hmm.
So I, um, I opened, I did some training around the area out of various gyms when I moved back to the Philly area in 2017, and then I opened my own training studio. Hmm. About four or five months before the pandemic hit. So that was not the ideal timing. I’m doing some in-person stuff now, some, uh, online training, virtual training.
Uh, and then I do some online classes [00:22:00] and, uh, I’m actually in the process of opening up another space, uh, that will be combined with my fiance. She’s a psychologist. Oh, awesome. So we’re creating this space where we have. We’ll have psychology offices and then a gym space. And you know, initially it’ll sort of be like two, two businesses operating in one space.
But we would like to eventually make it more of a holistic practice where we, you know, we have some offerings that combine the two. Hmm.
Caitlin: That’s fantastic.
Brian: We’re, we’re very excited. Um, because it’s, Both, of course, we’re, we’re humans. Everything’s connected. You can’t, you can’t take out the, the mind and the body, you know, they’re inextricable.
Mm-hmm. So we’re, we’re so pumped. Um, but from specifically with the training, I do a lot of, a lot of mobility training with folks, incorporate strength [00:23:00] training. And it really depends on their needs. You know, it’s not the kind of thing where I’m going here. You’re gonna come in and I’m gonna put you through my thing.
It’s really what do you most need, and that’s what I’m gonna help give to you. Great.
Caitlin: Yeah, it’s so great. Um, yeah, it’s, it’s interesting what you said about the, the holistic and the, the mind and body. I see them as just totally inseparable and, um, I’m like the, the mind is in every part of your body and, um mm-hmm.
And I, I also think it makes me think about how one of the things I’ve considered a lot as I’ve started treating with exercise in the physical therapy clinical setting is how exercise is tremendously. Healing and beneficial on so many levels. But what I find so fascinating about it is nobody really knows what the mechanism is because exercise acts on every single system of the body, and because of the ways that it [00:24:00] changes our mental attitudes and mental outlooks, and, and I find that incredibly fascinating.
Like, so I, I love that you’re combining psychology. With training, fitness training, exercise, because they are the Yeah, it’s just inseparable.
Brian: It is, it is. And my, one of my, the things I look forward to is in the future, you know, if I’m, if I’m working with someone and they’ve hired me to train them, I’m going to incorporate certain mindset related things.
But I’m not a psychologist. I’m not going to treat them. I’m not going to spend more time on that, uh, than some of the physical, but, One of the things that can be challenging, if I notice a lot of people have roadblocks, that I can educate them and teach them and train them. But if they’re not following through, a lot of times it’s more on the psychological level.
Mm-hmm. And I could say, Hey, you know what? Right next door, or, you know, just down in the same spot you’ve seen her every time you come [00:25:00] in. Maybe, maybe you wanna try some therapy to help working work on some of your hangups. That’s a much easier conversation. Uh, if they’ve met the person, if they’ve been in the same building than me, just out of the blue saying that while I’m training someone in my gym, it might come off very differently.
Absolutely. Especially with the stigmas around therapy.
Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a really important consideration. Yeah, and I’ve, I’ve found too, interestingly, over the last several months, I’ve gotten a number of PT patient referrals from psychotherapists who, who’ve identified like wonderful psychotherapists, who’ve identified that they’re patients that, um, have a lot of, you know, things they’re working through in therapy that are very much wrapped up in.
Chronic pain or depression or you know, I inability to experience joy or feel motivated or feel like getting up and getting [00:26:00] out and moving. I’ve gotten some referrals for PT for some of these patients and. I think that’s like, there’s just so much, um, I think robust kind of landscape for referrals back and forth to help people in as many people as we can in the most, most beneficial ways possible to be able to work from most sides.
Brian: Absolutely. I I mean, that’s so cool that, that you have people recognizing that and acknowledging the connection and, and referring to you. That’s, that’s wonderful. Mm-hmm. The. Uh, something that I, I kind of wrote down actually that, uh, I did a little writing this morning and about the way we experience the world and perceive the world, it really depends on our physical capacity and our perception of our own, what we think we can do.
Uh, if I’m walking down the street and, you know, my knee and my back and my shoulder hurt, uh, and it make, it makes it difficult to walk. [00:27:00] Um, I’m gonna see the world very differently. It’s, you know, mm-hmm. One big obstacle versus if I feel great and I feel bouncy and energetic, I might see a falling leaf, and that’s a wonderful opportunity to chase it and catch it.
Or a tree that I can climb, or I can jump from one sidewalk line to another. So the way we experience the world can be shaped by how we feel both pH, physically and mentally. But, you know, I think about myself and I know. When my body doesn’t feel as good, I’m not going to be as happy. You know, my experience is not going to be as well-rounded in life.
Mm-hmm.
Caitlin: Yeah. Same, same experience for me over here on this side and well, and I think a lot of people can relate to that too with what we’ve all gone through in the pandemic and being sort of bound to our homes or home offices for longer periods of time. You know, I, I mean, I know a lot of New Yorkers exper have experienced, you know, just the little [00:28:00] bit of, um, exercise that we get.
Not little bit, it’s not nothing but it, it takes, it’s like quite a lot of exercise just to do like a minimum daily, daily commuting type activities in New York City. Just the way that we’re set up with walking in public transit and so many people who experience staying home and working from home, and even missing that like little bit of baseline physical activity.
And, and feeling like the repercussions of that staying home. It’s, I think it’s been hugely illuminating over the last couple of years, how even just getting 30 minutes of walking in every day, it, I mean, it, it makes a big difference.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s empowering in a couple ways in that like, you know what, it doesn’t take that much to make a difference one direction or the other.
Um, over long periods of time. Yeah, I, I’ve noticed that in clients of all ages of mine. They’re like, you know, I just don’t know why, like, I’m having more [00:29:00] aches and pains and, you know, not feeling as good, not feeling as much energy. It’s like, well, you know, you’re spending 50% more time on screens. Mm-hmm.
And you’re getting probably, you know, even if it’s just 10 minutes less movement per day over the course of two years. Right. It really adds
Caitlin: up. Yeah. Yeah, the cumulative effects of that is, um, is pretty eye-opening. Okay. This kind of leads us nicely into the next thing I wanted to talk about, cuz you mentioned how, feeling, feeling better, better in your body, feeling more springy, feeling.
Kind of more, more alive from, from having a higher, maybe higher level of just capacity for physical activity can change our mindset so much in, in how we navigate life. The one of the things I really wanted to talk to you about in this conversation today is striking a balance between discipline and play.
Uh, as we were preparing for this interview, you said that much of your approach [00:30:00] as a trainer from FRC Principles, that’s, um, for listeners who don’t know, that’s functional Range conditioning and, um, P R I, which is Postural Restoration Institute Principles. Um, It’s important that people don’t get bogged down in overly rigid or scientific approach.
That perfection and rigidity is never the goal. Um, you find it important to teach people but not overload them and help them become self-sufficient. You even mentioned that you like to do this to the point that maybe they’re able to educate their own. Loved ones, which I think is really awesome. It’s something that I’ve always learned as a teacher is that the best way to learn material is to teach it to somebody else.
So if somebody is yeah, empowered enough and independent enough in what they have learned, that they can then go share it with someone else. I. They integrate it that much more strongly and they’re, it’s just kind of, they’re just paying it forward to more people to benefit from that information. So I think that’s really awesome.[00:31:00]
Um, it also kind of comes down to helping people feel like I. And it’s not too, not too rigid or not too lofty or perfect in terms of, um, what we’re striving for, that it can be just more user friendly across the general population. Um, so tell me, tell me more, a little bit more about kind of how you, how you teach on that level and also your own physical practice.
How certain amounts of, uh, discipline or consistency have gotten you to the point where you can. Play more freely because I, I think that that’s kind of a key thing too.
Brian: It is. I play is one of my favorite things and I, first off, to me, play is not some specific physical thing you do. It’s really a mindset that you can foster and that mindset dictates what play is to you.
And you know, it’s gonna be different for all of us, but. There [00:32:00] is a tendency, I think, especially as people learn more and they learn the science behind things to be, you know, very rigid, you know, you use complicated terms and terminology and come up with this program that is rigid. You know, you do this on Tuesday at this time, you do this on Wednesday, you get this much rest, monitor your heart rate here, uh, this many reps for this much and for people who are not.
Like fitness enthusiasts. And even if they are, that can be really overwhelming. Mm-hmm. And something that popped into my mind this morning actually was, uh, people need to know that they’re not a high stake science experiment. Um hmm. And I think people can, well, trainers and coaches can sometimes have people feel that way or other people can come in feeling that way.
Like, I need to get every detail absolutely perfect. Uh, if I don’t, then I’ve failed and I might as well just give up. So [00:33:00] educating people to the extent that they are able to receive, I think is important. And that comes with listening to the person in front of you and understanding what is important to them, what their experience is with movement and exercise, and some of that knowledge behind that.
So if I have someone coming in and they are a scientist and they’re very curious and they wanna know why about everything. Um, I’m gonna do my best to educate them, but still not go overboard. Mm-hmm. And tell them what they need to know. That’s gonna help them follow through on some of the work I want them to do, but at the same time, inspire a sense of joy in what they’re doing.
Highlight progress, connect it to the things that they want to be doing. If you improve your shoulder mobility, You’re gonna be able to throw a football with your grandson without pain, or, or you may be able to. Mm-hmm. So some of it is just the, when it comes to discipline [00:34:00] and play, educating that, hey, this doesn’t have to be perfect.
Here are the things I want you to work on. Um, and you can incorporate the things you like as well. You know, it’s not like if you do something that’s fun in instead of your third set of this exercise, it’s gonna take away all your progress.
Caitlin: Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, people already have so many barriers for entry and to exercise.
It’s like if it’s, if absolutely. If there’s any feeling that it has to be, it’s like perfect or, or it’s not worth doing, then no way. No way. Just doesn’t work.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, a term I use a lot is low barrier, you know? Mm-hmm. What are low barrier exercises or low barrier things that you can do? Um, and that just means like, Things that, you know, are easy for you to do that you know are easy and you feel confident that you can do.
Yeah. If you can go for a 10 minute walk, great. Do that consistently, and then you can work on building up. Um, I’ve, I’ve had clients who [00:35:00] went to, you know, a physical therapist or a doctor, um, podiatrist or who, who. Prescribe them 200 repetitions of an ankle exercise right when they were doing none of it prior to that and right.
Hey, you may look like, Hey, scientifically, I would like you to be able to do this many reps of this on a daily basis, but you have to look at the person in front of you and say, Hey, uh, maybe we’ll start with, you know, two sets of 10 and see how you feel. And, you know, go for a walk somewhere you enjoy. So, you know, you can, there’s a, you have to be realistic.
And the reality is, yes, we, we might need certain stimuli to create the adaptation we want long term, but we don’t have to start at the effect of stimulus. Right.
Caitlin: Well, yeah. And so much of that does come from research. And if you’re looking at a research protocol in terms of like, yeah, like minimum effective dose of exercise or [00:36:00] whatever, according to some research study, it’s like that’s a, that’s like a very lofty place to start for a lot of people.
It makes me think of, um, it’s pretty funny. But, um, in the clinic where I’m working now, the other PT I work with, we saw this study that was like in. Desk workers with chronic neck pain, they prescribed a lateral raise with a resistance band. So already that’s like for a lot of people that, oh my goodness, terrible.
Just, just a couple times. It’s kinda terrible. So like you just stand on the resistance band grab with both hands and do a lateral raise, but it was a lateral raise for two minutes or to failure. Like to the point of fatigue that I’m just explaining for listeners who don’t know what the failure is to the point of point of fatigue where you can’t possibly even get your arms up one more time.
We tried it and I think they said that like females in the study used a red resistance band and males used a green resistance band. I mean, this is like, I mean like brutal. And we [00:37:00] tried it like neither of us could come anywhere near a mi. Two minutes. I was like 45 seconds in. It was like, oh, how, how long am I doing this?
Um, so, so sometimes you’ll come across things like that, that’s like, yeah, it made a big difference. And they just did that one exercise. But when they’re saying to two minutes, Or failure. A lot of people are gonna like, do just three really horrible feeling reps and be like, no, I’m out. This is awful. No way.
Brian: Right, right. That’s, and I think that’s such an important point too, when it comes to adherence. And I know it depend, you know, it may depend on, um, You know, Caitlin, on how, how you work and how your system is set up with physical therapy. But I know a lot of times it’s like you don’t see the person that often.
Mm-hmm. You know, they have to do a lot of the stuff on their own, which is similar for training. And then, you know, maybe at some point they, they kind of graduated, but your, you know, your goal is to get [00:38:00] them to adhere somewhat. So it’s like this happy medium where if, if they immediately feel unsuccessful, they’re just not gonna do anything.
Totally. Um, Like it, it’s really self-defeating. It’s like, you might as well say, yeah, there’s nothing you can do.
Caitlin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ugh. Absolutely. Yeah. I wanna hear a little bit more about your personal training. I’ve seen recently you’ve been doing this series of playing Frisbee, fetch Fetch with yourself.
Yes. And um, you’re was like, Brian is just like a golden retriever of a person right here because it’s like, you’re like so happy. And so fast and so jumpy and, and you’re, you are really into jumping. I know that’s like a big, a big piece of your own personal training and um, so I was wondering if you could just speak a little bit to like what that takes in terms of training and consistency, but then [00:39:00] also ways that you sort of turn that more discipline side of it around to be like, okay, like.
Now I learn my scales and I’m gonna improvise. Right. To use just kind of a cliche, um, mu music metaphor, but like how, how does that kind of relate for you in your own training?
Brian: Well, that’s, that’s a great metaphor. Uh, because yeah, you, you want to set a foundation of strength, mobility, athleticism, um, in a more controlled environment so that you can then play.
Um, and express yourself in whatever way feels best. And that’s, that’s what I try to do. You know, I do my cars for those who are familiar, uh, joint rotations. I do all kinds of isometrics and strength training, and a lot of it would look very boring. You know, I’m sitting there creating lots of tension in my hamstring for.
Uh, you know, a couple minutes, you know, mixed in with stretching. And then I rotate my joints and I do it [00:40:00] because I know, and I felt the effects. And I think about, okay, if I wanna run and I wanna jump and do all these things, well, I need to strengthen my soleus, my, my calves, and achilles. I need to strengthen my toes, my shoulders, my hips.
Mm-hmm. Uh, in all the different directions and angles that are gonna be used. Right. I need to think about where I’ve been injured, my shoulder, you know, my hip, my knee, and fortify those areas. Mm-hmm. You know, I would say that probably 50% of my training energy goes into strength training, isometrics, various mobility work.
Uh, and then, you know, there’s like 30%. That’s a lot of play that is sometimes it’s literally just me. Like, what is fun? That I feel like doing right now and I do it, but then it’s really nice to find intersections of like, this is helping me actually [00:41:00] train a quality that I want to improve while I’m also having a lot of fun and like self fetch.
I’ll throw the Frisbee, I’ll chase after it. If I want to play Frisbee competitively, I’m gonna be fast. It’s important to work on speed and acceleration and reactivity. So I could certainly stand on a line, on a field and, you know, have someone yell, go, and then I run and then I run back. And I could do that 15 times, or I could throw a Frisbee and chase it, and as soon as I catch it, I run back or, so there, uh, there are many different ways to achieve a similar outcome.
The less capacity we have for mobility or strength or power, the, the more we might want to initially spend time in. More controlled environments in the gym, at home training where there aren’t as many variables, there’s less chance of getting hurt. Mm-hmm. But then the more we do that, and the more consistently we do that, the more freedom we have to express ourself with, uh, without as many adverse consequences.[00:42:00]
Caitlin: Right, right. Well, and it’s super important. I mean, just looking from my point of view, in a rehab setting, it’s super important for athletes who are rehabbing an injury and then returning to sport that they can handle, um, predictable environments and then they can handle unpredictable environments. So I think a place where play comes in is when you make that shift from going to like, you know, like you said, building, building up capacity, building up tissue tolerance, those kind of things that you just wanna put in, like really.
Consistent, repeated, repeated with consistent effort, repetitions on a regular basis. But then you have to go from that kind of doing things that are absolutely predictable and controllable to the things that are not, not predictable. And that’s like play is just the, the best way, I think to start to incorporate some of that work.
Brian: Absolutely. Is, as I mentioned before, play, play is very, uh, Specific to the person, what it, what it means [00:43:00] to you. So I can help people find what is play to them. Mm-hmm. It really can be a mindset. For example, you know, I have some clients, like they’re working on single leg balance, they play ultimate Frisbee.
I have them standing, you know, 10 yards apart, tossing the disc between each other, standing on one leg. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, something like that just makes it, it shifts the continuum toward play and away from, you know, conventional training. Right. Right. Um, and any, anything you’re doing for me, I, I was like this as a little kid.
I sometimes forget where I would make up games and I would make up rules as I went along. Mm-hmm. Uh, if anyone ever read Calvin and Hobbs, it’s like Calvin Ball. Uh, so Oh yeah. I, I find that, um, you know, you start doing something and you can just sort of make up rules as you go and. Give these arbitrary constraints that can mm-hmm.
Make something more challenging, uh, et cetera. And you find yourself playing this game and it also helps you [00:44:00] engage more. Mm-hmm. And kind of find this flow state versus, ugh, I’m gonna run and then I’m gonna do this, and then I’m gonna tie my rest and do that. Um, and it pulls you out of it. But if that’s one of the benefits of play is you can find a way to engage yourself so fully.
That you don’t even realize, you’re not consciously aware that you were training. Right?
Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome.
Brian: Yeah, it’s exciting.
Caitlin: It’s so exciting. Yeah. And like you said, I think there’s a whole spectrum of what that could look like for different people. And um, it also makes me think of like a, sort of like a task based training or constraints based training versus training more for.
Aesthetics or um, form, right? You know, when it’s based on the task, the body is gonna find a way to do it the most efficiently, where you’re not micromanaging that movement and getting less caught [00:45:00] up in like all the, all the minutia of, of form. Maybe it could help people who yeah, tend to get a little fussy in that direction, make their training less fussy and more.
Fun. I think that’s important too, but it depends on the person, right? Some people need a little more like just a little more structure and some people need to break out a structure and play a little more.
Brian: Totally. And um, there’s a lot I can say on that. That’s so form and exercise and labels is so interesting, and I suspect you’ve encountered this too.
Like certain words, like a lunge or a squat, can elicit. A response in someone that is subconscious that can cause pain or anxiety. Yeah, or one something i, I just always sticks with me is there was a client I was training, uh, another trainer trained her as well. I would see her Tuesdays, he would see her Thursdays and lunges, [00:46:00] side lunges would give her knee pain based on her physical capacity and the things she did in her daily life.
We thought, you know, We want her to be able to move laterally in the frontal plane. We wanna try getting her doing this to some capacity. And we tried, you know, why don’t you just step to step to the side and reach to my hand? Yeah. And that created visually the exact same movement without pain. Because it didn’t have the label.
We didn’t specify a certain form or angle of her body. Um, it was like the outcome. You know, she’s, I want you to step and reach. To me. Yeah. Yeah. And she’s focused on that, not on her knee. So that, I think that is such a good reminder that the language we use, um, the constraints we put on something, the form, it all can have implications for what the person’s experience is.
Mm-hmm.
Caitlin: Definitely. Yeah. I’m thinking about some of my, um, chronic back pain patients or people who, um, just have like some. [00:47:00] Posterior neurologic tension, like sciatica and things like that. And, um, just bending forward or if like, if someone’s had a prior injury from performing a deadlift or are they a pain when they bend over, getting them to do things that are like less prescriptive type of like, Hip hinge or deadlift motions, but just getting them into a position where it’s like, now, you know, you just imagine you’re reaching down to pick something up off the floor, just throw a pen down on the ground and have them pick it up off the ground.
Um, or like a split stance, deadlift type position. But it’s like, like you’re gonna bend down entire shoe. And to, so to get people to like, like just kind of do it in a, like move in the way you would move if you were gonna do this thing can kind of get them out of the, maybe some of more of the bracing or movement avoidance type of patterns that they might have from that, those pain symptoms over time.
Yeah. Super cool. Yeah,
Brian: and it’s, and that’s really smart cuz we, we don’t realize sometimes how much like [00:48:00] baggage we have over a certain movement or, uh, yeah. It’s, it’s really interesting.
Caitlin: So, Brian, I’ve seen some posts recently on your Instagram that you’re working with, um, high school athletes, co coaching young athletes, and I would love to hear a little bit more about that.
Brian: Yes, that is something, uh, I really, really enjoy. I’ve, I’ve worked with some middle school and high school athletes in the past, and for the last few years I’ve worked with some ultimate Frisbee teams at the local high school. Uh, training them and educating them. And I recently got a job as the strength and conditioning coach at this high school, and it, it’s been a month, maybe a little more.
It’s so neat and so different than like personal training or even group training with adults. But one of the things that is really interesting and a little bit disturbing is that from a physical education standpoint and health standpoint, [00:49:00] Uh, I don’t think schools in our society are doing enough to have people physically prepared or even understand their bodies, and yeah, then I, I realize that, you know, I’m seeing the kids that are generally on an athletic team or they’re, it’s self-selected, they’re, they’re already filtered.
These are the kids who want to be physically active, they’re physically inclined, they’re a little more confident to come into the gym. And even so, you know, half of them can’t. Rotate their shoulders or. They don’t know that if their shoulder is hurting, they probably shouldn’t bench press heavy. Um, or they don’t understand the effect that sleep has on them, so, mm-hmm.
Uh, on, yeah, that’s, it’s so interesting and it’s also, it makes me think of like what I would do as a phys ed teacher, or really, my hands might be tied a bit. So if I were to redesign the whole country’s physical education, Um, you know, it, it would be like actual education cuz [00:50:00] I, I started reflecting back and I was like, as a student, I was very physically and intellectually curious, very physically inclined, athletic, energetic.
I was all about it. I don’t recall learning about how to take care of my body at all. Right. And maybe, maybe, I don’t remember some of it, but it was, you learned some of the rules of sports. You run around in a poorly ventilated gym and sweat. Um, but besides that, you know, sports are great. Playing is great.
It’s so, it’s so important to emphasize that. However, sports don’t equal health, so. Mm-hmm. You know, the, the physical activity that a lot of people got was like, you’re gonna play sports, probably many of which you are not very good at. And that’s that. And I’m seeing that reflected in the high school athletes that even if they’re strong or they play a sport, they don’t all feel very good.
Yeah. Um, their movement quality’s not great. They’re not set up to [00:51:00] be successful long term. Yeah. Uh, and that’s a, that’s a real problem. Like they might be good at football or track, but they’re not good at being, uh, a human.
Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I also think there’s a big problem with, um, Kind of overuse in sports and lacking proper periodization to keep their, their bodies healthy.
But also you mentioned sleep and that is so huge, and especially for teens. I mean for anybody, but especially for teens, that’s such a big deal because teenagers are meant to sleep a lot and to. Stay up later and sleep in later. And the just the school system is not designed to give them that. And then you put athletics on top of that and their schedules are just so overloaded.
It’s like how could they possibly ever get any sleep when sleep is the probably one of the most important things in their. Right. Physical performance and, um, mitigating the risk of injury for those athletes. So yeah, there’s so many factors there that are just kind of like [00:52:00] way off in terms of getting even, even closer to something optimal for, for health, overall health.
Brian: Right. It, it’s so key. And so my experience so far, which I’m very grateful for, has been, you know, the kids are curious and they do want to know, you know, how to. Get better performance, get stronger, improve, feel better. And so I’ve been trying to educate as much as I can. I’m responsible for creating, uh, training programs for many of the teams and then teaching them that.
Um, and some of it is not fully optimal and it’s easy to say. Yeah, given, you know, adequate resources and space and time alone with every team. Here’s what I would do. The reality is there are many constraints with time, space, equipment, but what I can do is educate them so that they can make better decisions about what to do in their own training with their own bodies.
And that’s, that’s something that I’ve [00:53:00] found is really fun and really cool when you start to see things click. Mm-hmm. And I, I had a moment where it was like 15 to 20 minutes straight of like kids asking me questions and. On one hand, it’s, it is a little fatiguing. You know, I have multiple teams in there training, doing the program.
I had written for them, and some of the questions were relevant, some of them weren’t, but I sat back. I’m like, I, it’s so cool that they want to hear what I have to say, that they are coming up. They have the confidence to come up to me and ask a question. I mean, that’s, that’s vulnerable. And for a teenager, you know?
Mm-hmm. I don’t take that for granted and. It’s, it’s just very cool and I’ve found that one of the things that everyone but teenagers more than I anticipated, respond well to is enthusiasm. And you think about, you know, oh, they rolled their eyes. You have athletes coming in who have big egos, some of them, but I actually had some [00:54:00] tell me that we do our, our cars because you are just so excited about it.
Wow. I can’t believe that I, I had high school boys. Showing me a video of them doing hip cars at a concert. And I was like, I cannot believe that. But uh, so it turns out, you know, even among the teenagers, enthusiasm, like real, genuine enthusiasm along with some, some education is really
Caitlin: powerful. Yeah. And they’re gonna, they’re gonna take that with them for the rest of their lives.
Brian: So great. I, I certainly hope so. Yeah. And, and that goes back to, I’ve had a few of them talk about like, oh, I showed my parents, you know, this exercise. Mm. And I showed my teammates this exercise and we’re doing this now. I do this every day before bed, and it just, it makes my day. Yeah.
Caitlin: Oh, that’s so great.
Before we wrap up, I always like to end conversations with asking about, uh, something that you do just for [00:55:00] you. Um, some area of study or skill development or. Entertainment that you’re currently engaged in. Mm-hmm. Um, we already talked about, um, your ultimate Frisbee, but if you wanna say a little bit more about that, I’m all ears.
I know you also, um, write poetry and, um, and are interested in neuroscience. So just to finish up, what, what kind of other skill development or social or entertainment type areas are you, uh, really, really jiving on right now?
Brian: Well, ultimate Frisbee has been, uh, a love of mine since, uh, you know, late high school.
I played in college and there’s some, some club teams and adult leagues that I play in now. I had a game on Thursday and it’s something that is a really nice competitive outlet. You know, at a, at a high level. It’s, it’s very challenging, but it’s a great competitive outlet and it’s, it motivates me to like get out and actually practice skills, not just fitness, but practice.
Uh, you know, throwing skills, [00:56:00] catching skills, et cetera. So I love getting out and practicing. I was doing that yesterday in the mud. It was great. Um, and then poetry is something I’ve been getting back into, and that is self-expression in, in many forms is so wonderful. And finding different avenues. To do it.
It is great. And for me, poetry was like a breakthrough, uh, back actually when I was starting to leave, getting mentally prepared to leave my old job, that was traumatic. Um, I started writing more poetry and I actually started sharing it and I would recite things to myself and it made such a difference in my own mindset, and I found that.
It’s just something that, that feels really good to me. I started writing poems that are kind of like Dr. Sush with, uh, kind of simple language, uh, some, some pleasing, rhyming, uh, and then got into some more deep stuff. But I, I love [00:57:00] to just sit down and write and I can kind of get in the zone. And that’s probably the most, like, just for me thing, because everything else, like neuroscience.
Frisbee, the, it all bleeds into the, the fitness. And like I end up like, I’m like, oh, I ended up doing several hours of work, uh, or like neuroscience. Okay, what can I write to, you know, my clients and how can I, but poetry is just like a pure self-expression for no other reason. Uh, I really love it. Yeah, it’s
Caitlin: great.
Um, Brian, thank you so much. This has been, uh, just a delight to talk to you and, um, get to know you a little bit better through conversation from what I’ve seen on social media. I wanted to end by telling our listeners how they can reach you. Um, so I have that your Instagram is b nek on Instagram. That’s your handle, correct.
Correct. Uh, correct, yes. Uh, or be underscore neon for [00:58:00] Instagram. And I’ll put all of these in the show notes. So if you’re listening and you wanna, um, find Brian, uh, you’ll have links in the show notes to, to all of these spaces. Uh, your website is Smiles Take You Miles. And I know that’s a little tagline that you’ve been using for quite a while now.
I’m on your email list and I really appreciate getting your smiles. Take you Miles emails. And you have a YouTube channel, and you gave me a link to, um, some videos on your YouTube channel. I’ll put that in the, the show notes as well. Um, a section of your YouTube called Playtime. And uh, so if anybody listening wants to check out, Um, some of your stuff via video, I highly recommend.
And then I’ll also, I’ll include your email also brian.ne gmail.com in the show notes. So anybody listening, if you wanna reach out to Brian, train with Brian, take any classes online, um, definitely go forth and do so. Anything else to add, Brian, in terms of ways to reach you or [00:59:00] closing thoughts to share with our listeners?
Um,
Brian: I think that was all good. I just, uh, Caitlin, I really appreciate the conversation and you having me on, and, uh, always happy to talk about. Any of this stuff, so, yeah.
Caitlin: Yeah. Well, best of luck to you with your, your practice with training and, uh, with your fiance with psychology. That sounds really amazing, and I hope that, um, blossoms for you both and all of your, um, clients are gonna be so lucky to work with you both.
Uh, sounds amazing.
Brian: Thank you so much.
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